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PAVILION

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Sarah Palin's Request for Privacy

Tue Sep 2, 2008 11:47 AM EDT
politics, mccain, palin, abortion, campaign-2008
By Pavilion
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Well it's been in the news long enough for everyone in the country to know. Sara Palin's 17 year-old, daughter is pregnant. And like most parents, Sara wants to protect her daughter and her family. She is asking for privacy.

"We ask the media to respect our daughter and Levi's privacy as has always been the tradition of children of candidates."

Sarah and her husband have every right to request privacy and expect that the media (and the rest of us) to give their family the respect we would expect for our own families.

As a mother of 3, myself, I will honor that request. I will by-pass any articles I see in the newspapers, or on-line about Palin's young daughter. I will not listen to any news broadcasts about her daughter's situation either.

All I ask in return is that Sara Palin give the rest of America the privacy she requests for her own family.

In 2006 when answering a question about abortion in a Gubernatorial Candidate Questionnaire for Eagle Forum Sara Palin wrote the following:

"I am pro-life. With the exception of a doctor's determination that the mother's life would end if the pregnancy continued. I believe that no matter what mistakes we make as a society, we cannot condone ending an innocent's life."

Palin at least accepts that there are times when a mother's life is in danger. But that is about the only circumstance in which she thinks abortion should be legal. During a candidate debate Palin was asked about rape and abortion. Anchorage Daily News reported from the debate as follows:

"The candidates were pressed on their stances on abortion and were even asked what they would do if their own daughters were raped and became pregnant.

Palin said she would support abortion only if the mother's life was in danger. When it came to her daughter, she said, 'I would choose life.'"

Here is the rub. Abortion is not all that simple. No one - not even our most knowledgeable scientists, can tell at what exact moment life begins (or ends). Our culture respects this reality for end of life issues. We give human beings, doctors, and families the privacy they need to make their own decisions regarding end of life.

Families all over this country, day-in and day-out, are required by circumstances beyond their control to make decisions they don't want to make. Even as I write this article I wonder how many families are consulting with their doctors (in private) and determining whether they should end all extraordinary measures to keep a loved one breathing. This is the sad reality, none of us likes this reality, but it is something we must all grapple with. Since no scientist can tell us for sure when life ends, we are often called upon to make heart-wrenching decisions. And we are allowed to do this in private.

The beginning of life has no easy answers either. Does life begin at conception? Does it begin with the first heart beat? Does it begin with the first recorded brain wave? Or, does it begin with the ability to survive for pro-longed periods of time outside the mother's womb?

There are no easy answers. Each of us must grapple with the questions in our own hearts and the answers may vary by circumstance and by person. If a woman is raped, she should have the same right to privacy that Sara Palin is requesting for her own family.

Rape is traumatic enough without the government of this country forcing a woman to carry a resulting pregnancy to term. What right does our government have to intrude upon the privacy of a woman just raped and forbid a doctor or hospital from offering a morning after pill?

For that matter, what right does our government have to intrude in private family matters such as Gretchen Voss and her family had to deal with. Gretchen was eighteen weeks pregnant when she found out her baby had severe birth defects. Gretchen's description of finding out follows:

"Instead of cinnamon and spice, our child came with technical terms like hydrocephalus and spina bifida. The spine, she said, had not closed properly, and because of the location of the opening, it was as bad as it got. What they knew -- that the baby would certainly be paralyzed and incontinent, that the baby's brain was being tugged against the opening in the base of the skull and the cranium was full of fluid -- was awful. What they didn't know -- whether the baby would live at all, and if so, with what sort of mental and developmental defects -- was devastating. Countless surgeries would be required if the baby did live. None of them would repair the damage that was already done."

Gretchen and her husband felt they had no choice and terminated the pregnancy. This was a heart wrenching decision for them, one in which they consulted with their own families and received support. Their decision was made in private, as it should have been.

I am pro-choice. That does not mean I am pro-abortion. Pro-choice means I don't feel I have the right to push my personal beliefs about the beginning of life upon another person, or family. Personally I don't know when life begins. I know when I was pregnant I felt life inside of me. I also know that if someone I loved was raped I would support her decision to terminate a pregnancy. I also know that if a couple told me they had just found out the news that their child would be born with severe birth defects; I would defend their right to make decisions for this child in private. And whatever decision they made, I would support them. Pro-choice means I believe in the right of women, parents and doctors to make their own decisions - in private - without government interference.

I will respect Sara Palin's request for privacy in the matter of her daughter's pregnancy. I will also ask that she give the rest of America the same privacy to grapple with their personal decisions in private and without intrusion - either by the press or the American Government.

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  • Public Discussion (36)
Pavilion

I debated long and hard about publishing this article. Sara's daughter does have a right to privacy and so does the whole family.

In the end, though, the right to privacy for all Americans pushed me to write the above article. The focus of this article is on Sara's legitimate request for privacy and her unwillingness to give all American women and their families the same right to privacy.

Please keep your comments focused on the individual's and family's right to privacy in such areas as pregnancy and abortion.

I will delete any comments regarding Palin's daughter &/or family.

  • 14 votes
Reply#1 - Tue Sep 2, 2008 11:53 AM EDT
Danny McGee

This is an amazing article, Pavilion. You've successfully pointed out the hypocrisy of Palin's request for privacy for her family while seeking to enforce laws very intrusive into deeply personal matters of American citizens, but you've handled the subject with utmost sensitivity and respect. Many kudos.

Tangent time....

What right does our government have to intrude upon the privacy of a woman just raped and forbid a doctor or hospital from offering a morning after pill?

The controversy surrounding the "morning after" pill is one of the most pathetic things about this whole issue. You take it after the sex occurred, so many people consider it "abortion." However, in reality, it's just a concentrated amount of the same stuff in the standard daily birth control pill, and serves the exact same function. When you're on the pill, it alters your body in such a way as to prevent fertilized egg cells - blastocysts - from adhering to the cell wall of the uterus. The result is that any eggs which become fertilized are naturally "miscarried" before reaching the embryonic stage. The morning after pill works the exact same way, except instead of taking it every day, it's taken as a last ditch effort after sex has already occurred and thus has an increased failure rate.

Some really basic scientific literacy into the issues that so many claim to care so deeply about would go a long way toward coming to informed opinions instead of just following the rest of the flock.

  • 6 votes
#1.1 - Tue Sep 2, 2008 7:33 PM EDT
Pavilion

The controversy surrounding the "morning after" pill is one of the most pathetic things about this whole issue. You take it after the sex occurred, so many people consider it "abortion." However, in reality, it's just a concentrated amount of the same stuff in the standard daily birth control pill, and serves the exact same function. When you're on the pill, it alters your body in such a way as to prevent fertilized egg cells - blastocysts - from adhering to the cell wall of the uterus. The result is that any eggs which become fertilized are naturally "miscarried" before reaching the embryonic stage. The morning after pill works the exact same way, except instead of taking it every day, it's taken as a last ditch effort after sex has already occurred and thus has an increased failure rate.

Some really basic scientific literacy into the issues that so many claim to care so deeply about would go a long way toward coming to informed opinions instead of just following the rest of the flock.

Hello Danny - yes I am aware of all that you wrote above. In addition - it should be noted that many believe birth control itself is a form of abortion. There are many, many pharmacists in this country who refuse to dispense birth control pills, nor will they tell a woman where else she can obtain birth control pills. This can be a real problem if a woman lives in a rural area. This again, is another example of someone pushing their personal beliefs upon other people.

  • 6 votes
#1.2 - Tue Sep 2, 2008 9:07 PM EDT
HyperActive

Hi Pavillion - tactful post. My following is not meant as an attack, but merely a request for clarification.

quote; "There are many, many pharmacists in this country who refuse to dispense birth control pills, nor will they tell a woman where else she can obtain birth control pills. This can be a real problem if a woman lives in a rural area. This again, is another example of someone pushing their personal beliefs upon other people. " end quote.

Is it any different a pharmacist not dispensing birth control based on his/her beliefs that same said pharmicist having someone else's beliefs pushed on them forcing them to dispense birth control?

Just wondering....

  • 1 vote
#1.3 - Tue Sep 2, 2008 10:23 PM EDT
Pavilion

Is it any different a pharmacist not dispensing birth control based on his/her beliefs that same said pharmicist having someone else's beliefs pushed on them forcing them to dispense birth control?

Just wondering....

Valid observation, HyperActive and one worthy of discussion.

Having said that, poor rural women who cannot afford to drive to more populated areas (with more choices in pharmacies) are really impacted if they cannot find birth control locally. They are the ones who end up pregnant and trying to care for, pay for and raise children they cannot afford. I'm not saying this is happening all over America, but it is happening and it should not go ignored in the over all discussion about women's health, birth-control, abortion and privacy issues.

  • 3 votes
#1.4 - Tue Sep 2, 2008 10:43 PM EDT
HyperActive

I grew up on a farm and ranch in an extremely rural area of Idaho. The rest of my family lived in rural areas of OK, MS, NE. and TX. My closest neighbor was 1 mile away and our closest pharmacy was 42 miles away. As such there were a number of poor rural families and yes single, divorced, etc. woman as well. In all of these communities there was/is always someone willing to assist in transportation (as well as other issues) for those that didn't have, couldn't afford, etc.

Even to this day the closeness of those communities still exisits. Maybe the state of our communities (be they rural or not) and the willingnes to help a neighbor in need should be the issues instead.

Although I am pro-life (that's my choice) I do believe people have the right to decide what's best for them and their circumstances (their choice) and with that said I guess that would make what (a pro-lifer; pro-choicer) Is that even possible? :-)

  • 2 votes
#1.5 - Tue Sep 2, 2008 11:53 PM EDT
Pavilion

Although I am pro-life (that's my choice) I do believe people have the right to decide what's best for them and their circumstances (their choice) and with that said I guess that would make what (a pro-lifer; pro-choicer) Is that even possible? :-)

Basically that has been my point all along. There is an assumption, in America, that if one is pro-choice one is also pro-abortion. This is simply not the case. I live in one of the most liberal areas of the United States. Most people I know are pro-choice - but I don't know anyone who is "pro-abortion". Just last night I was having a conversation with someone who works in the health-care industry and has seen the ugly side of abortion. She knows many women have abortions for selfish reasons, she knows the true psychological pain for the mother when abortion occurs.

She is still pro-choice - even after all she's seen. The reason she is still pro-choice is because she has also seen the need for abortion in certain circumstances. Circumstances such as the one described in this article by Gretchen Voss, or circumstances such as rape.

Pro-choice means exactly what you said, believing "people have the right ot decide what's best for them and their circumstances (their choice)".

On a personal level I do not know what I would've ever done had a doctor informed me the baby I was carrying had the same kind of birth defects that Gretchen's baby had. I am thankful I've never been put in the position of having to make the kind of decisions that she and her husband had to make. Those are decisions none of us should have to make.

No one should ever have to worry about the morning after pill and rape - but we do. Rape happens every day in this country, and what place do any of us have telling a rape victim that she can't use the morning after pill. Or tell a rape victim who didn't report the rape and then found out she was pregnant - that she can't get an abortion.

I have often wondered myself, in this country, would I ever report a rape if it happened to me. I don't know, I'd like to think I would - but why would I want to keep reliving it over and over and over again? Why would I want to take the risk that people wouldn't believe me, that it would become public? The thought of that scares me almost as much as the thought of rape itself scares me. Then to be told I would be denied an abortion if pregnancy resulted - it's a heart sinking thought ......

You are right, "people have the right to decide what's best for them and their circumstances (their choice". And they have a right to privacy within those circumstances, the right to make choices without government interferences.

Your position is no different from my own and much as I hate the idea of abortion I still call myself pro-choice. You call yourself pro-life - but when it comes to the nuts and bolts of the discussion we aren't that far apart. We both have moral qualms about abortion (and we should have - it is a life and death issue) but we both recognize that individuals have the right to decide for themselves what is best in their own circumstances.

  • 4 votes
#1.6 - Wed Sep 3, 2008 7:46 AM EDT
Danny McGee

Is it any different a pharmacist not dispensing birth control based on his/her beliefs that same said pharmicist having someone else's beliefs pushed on them forcing them to dispense birth control?

This, in my mind, is comparable to taking a job as a liquor store clerk or a bartender and yet being unwilling to serve alcohol because it goes against your beliefs. They read the job description, they knew what it entailed, it's part of their job and if they're not willing to do it they need to find a different career. It's as simple as that.

  • 4 votes
#1.7 - Wed Sep 3, 2008 9:31 AM EDT
Reply
Perry O

Thank you for this excellent article. I've been much disgusted the way the media and some of those in politics have dragged a pregnant 17 year old girl in the the national spotlight. You've managed to discuss issues surrounding this while, in my opinion, respecting her right to privacy.

  • 5 votes
Reply#2 - Tue Sep 2, 2008 12:10 PM EDT
SnotRag Dave

I am pro-choice. That does not mean I am pro-abortion. Pro-choice means I don't feel I have the right to push my personal beliefs about the beginning of life upon another person, or family.

I could not agree more with that statement. Kudos!

  • 8 votes
Reply#3 - Tue Sep 2, 2008 12:14 PM EDT
TheFunkyBunch

I'm sorry, I don't believe Bristol Palin should be part of ANY discussion that the media has or we as a community have. And that goes for DKos and other websites, too. It's wrong to drag her into the spotlight. But here's my thing; if Sarah Palin wanted her privacy so damn bad, she shouldn't have accepted the VP job. She's a 40 something year old hockey mom from Alaska. Did she really think "Ah, national politics isn't gonna be so bad!"? She made a huge mistake taking this job and she's in over her head.

I do think it was absolutely slimy, disgusting and wrong to ever break any kind of story about doubts as to who was Trig's mother and it's wrong to judge Sarah Palin for what goes on with her 17 year old daughter. However, she should have known something like this was going to happen.

  • 13 votes
Reply#4 - Tue Sep 2, 2008 12:36 PM EDT
HyperActive

It has always been an unspoken rule in election politics on all levels that the children of said candidates are off limits. And up to this point in time that has been relatively weel adhered to. By politicizing this issue IMO has done nothing but introduce sleaze politics.

It's been said that a person is judged by the company they keep (right or wrong it is very true). By attacking this issue the way some have, said "liberal Democrats" have/are giving the Democrat party a very bad image. The Repubs in years past have done no less on occassion.

    #4.1 - Tue Sep 2, 2008 10:38 PM EDT
    Reply
    Tiffany-474107

    If Sarah Palin was not McCain's running mate, 49 of the 50 US states would not know that her daughter is pregnant, nor would they care. Why is this news? Who cares? Does this have ANYTHING to do with how McCain/Palin will do as President/Vice President. No it doesn't. And who cares if her husband was arrested on DUI charges 22 YEARS AGO. Who cares!!!! Not that I condone drinking while driving as I do not drink, but there are thousands of people that are arrested each year for DUI and it does not make national news. It has nothing to do with McCain/Palin's plans for the US or their ability to run a nation.

    • 1 vote
    Reply#5 - Tue Sep 2, 2008 12:40 PM EDT
    agio

    I think if McCain had done even the slightest amount of vetting he would have found out this story, and others, and not picked her for his VP. It was a reckless move on his part.

    To me it says a lot about the kind of president McCain would make.

    • 3 votes
    #5.1 - Tue Sep 2, 2008 5:03 PM EDT
    loosecannon

    Why is this news? Who cares? Does this have ANYTHING to do with how McCain/Palin will do as President/Vice President.

    When one of your firmly held belief is that "abstinence-only" education is an effective way to stop teen pregnancy, and your own daughter turns up pregnant, it's more than a private matter. It's proof that you can't keep kids from having sex, no matter how important it is to you and your family.

    The other thing that makes it more than a personal issue is that her stance on abortion, as pointed out in this well-written column, is intractable. Her family has the right to choose whatever they want to do in this case, and they've made that choice (I hope Bristol got a vote, but that's another story). Every family in America deserves that choice, and Sarah Palin and like-minded people want to take it away from us.

    Why was Reverend Wright an issue that people used (and still use) to determine if they would vote for him. How much more personal can the question of where you go to church be? It was an issue because people felt that the decision he made to remain a member of that church might be an indication of his decision-making process.

    That's how this works. We have only the decisions and policies the candidates have made in their past to determine how they might react in the future. She signed up for this cruise, she should have expected all of this and more.

    • 3 votes
    #5.2 - Tue Sep 2, 2008 7:36 PM EDT
    Reply
    greengal

    Pavilion - Excellent article! I agree that everyone has the right to privacy - regardless of what they decide to do about a pregnancy. Having had this experience myself, my heart goes out to this young woman. For those who are consoled by the fact that she plans to marry the teenage father - I can only say that 'shotgun weddings' rarely work - they usually just compound one mistake with another. I just wish that the deference that is being requested for Mrs. Palin's daughter would be given to all young women who find themselves in her position.

    The real issue it seems to me is that it appears a bit incongruous that Mrs. Palin would make the choice to put her daughter under the magnifying glass in the most public of all contests and then demand that the press respect her daughter's privacy.

    • 7 votes
    Reply#6 - Tue Sep 2, 2008 12:48 PM EDT
    Ellen-for-Obama

    This is excellent. You expressed, so much better than I did, some of what I ranted about all weekend.

    • 7 votes
    Reply#7 - Tue Sep 2, 2008 12:51 PM EDT
    Zydor

    They do deserve privacy, a candidate's children are off limits in campaigns. I also agree that abortion is an incredibly personal thing that in due course, if it ever became relevant in the campaign, she should also respect other's privacy and views on it.

    • 7 votes
    Reply#8 - Tue Sep 2, 2008 1:07 PM EDT
    Pavilion

    I also agree that abortion is an incredibly personal thing that in due course, if it ever became relevant in the campaign, she should also respect other's privacy and views on it.

    Abortion became relevant in the campaign the minute McCain put a VP Candidate on the ticket who has made her views regarding abortion very public. She would only make abortion legal in the case of the life of the mother. She considers abortion in the case of rape wrong. If she is running for VP - her views on this issue are on the table.

    And, as citizens, we have the right to hold her accountable about her willingness to respect the privacy of every citizen in the case of decisions regarding pregnancy and abortion.

    • 9 votes
    #8.1 - Tue Sep 2, 2008 1:13 PM EDT
    Zydor

    And, as citizens, we have the right to hold her accountable about her willingness to respect the privacy of every citizen in the case of decisions regarding pregnancy and abortion.

    Couldnt agree more ...

    • 7 votes
    #8.2 - Tue Sep 2, 2008 1:23 PM EDT
    Reply
    Chum

    With all due respect to Mrs. Palin, I don't think it's likely that she'll get the privacy she requests. Certainly former Democratic children have received a lot of negative attention (remember the cruelty directed toward Chelsea Clinton?). With that said, I agree. I think families should be off limits. Of course, if Mrs. Palin had not supported an abstinence only education campaign, maybe her daughter would have had access to birth control and not faced this situation so young.

    Abortion is a very private choice that the government should not dictate. We do a very poor job of assisting families who do have children that they can't afford.

    • 9 votes
    Reply#9 - Tue Sep 2, 2008 1:27 PM EDT
    Partisan Hack

    This is all well and good, but it was the McCain campaign who put her daughter's pregnancy out there for the public to see.

    Consider that when considering who's behind what. Palin's privacy has been violated by her running mate's operation.

    In the meantime public information about the public life of a public servant deserves the scrutiny of the public.

    • 9 votes
    Reply#10 - Tue Sep 2, 2008 1:57 PM EDT
    Chum

    Good point, PH. Frankly, I think adultery is a private matter that should not be public fodder, but we did have an impeachment over that. But go ahead and drag a country into war and trillions in debt by lying, and you're not accountable. I'll never understand.

    Regardless, Mrs. Palin chose to step into the national spotlight. Inevitably, her life--and therefore her family's--gets the spotlight. If she didn't seriously consider this before accepting McCain's invitation, she really doesn't deserve to even be considered as VP.

    • 10 votes
    #10.1 - Tue Sep 2, 2008 2:15 PM EDT
    Reply
    Thomas Goddard

    It's not even about Palin for me and my family. It's about about the religious views that carry no rationale whatsoever. It's about re-evaluating the sanctity of life in this world for the better, long term, good of the human race. Does anyone ever address the fact that we are a minuscule species, brought about by the natural cycles of mother nature, orbiting one of infinite stars in the universe, with absolutely no clue how we got here and no evidence that god even exists?

    It's about rational humans looking for real answers and real solutions to life's mysteries and medical problems, which are continuously deprived of their right to explore solutions because of some view, that has no supporting evidence.

    When individuals, or groups of them, determine that our existence will be solely defined by their set of laws and beliefs, it's beyond the scope of their power. It's our job to push for freedom to explore the universe, without the cloud of religious zealotry.

    If Sarah Palin finds it fit for her own country to destroy its wildlife, drill it out of existence for oil, force people out of jobs for political reasons, and do this under her own standards of faith, we should all be allowed to say what we want about such actions.

    Keep in mind, it doesn't matter whether we say things about Sarah or Her family or not. Will it go recognized as a good deed for you publishing this article? Highly unlikely... They only want to make the free thinking people in this country look like they're vicious and inhumane. It's a double standard tactic.

    Vote Obama and at least we'll have a human with core values that will push this hurting country into the future with some dignity.

    • 6 votes
    Reply#11 - Tue Sep 2, 2008 3:11 PM EDT
    newsblog903

    Yes indeed Thomas. You and Pavillion have summed it up very well.

    • 4 votes
    #11.1 - Tue Sep 2, 2008 7:32 PM EDT
    Reply
    xargaw

    The revelation about Gov. Palin's daughter is not the predominant family issue. This is an issue about choices that families make. Gov. Palin and her husband chose to have five children and with that choice comes responsibilites and compromises. She chose to combine a career with motherhood. Many women do and many women are forced to work and do not have a choice. Combining careet and motherhood require sacrifices and compromises at time. Now, Gov. Palin has a pregnant teenage daughter and a special needs infant. Both of these situations call for extra parental attention. Her daughter is at an age where emotions are extreme and unpredictable. Anyone that has had a special needs child knows well the extra time and attention required for the child to develop to it's full potential. Both of these children need parental nurturing and parental time. Gov. Palin is abandoning the needs of these two children for a political career. Many Americans would like to know how she defines "family values," which she fervently champions. This is a matter of priorities and character and so far, Gov. Palin is falling short on both.

      Reply#12 - Tue Sep 2, 2008 3:45 PM EDT
      michael-475306

      Leave the daughter alone!!! You'll destroy her life, she's only 17. Even Obama mentioned how he was born of an 18 year old mother. Today in our country it's common to here of some one that young of age having a baby. Is it right NO, but we must face the facts and support our children in helping them make the right choice, and not continue to make bad ones. It's upsetting to see the media using here to disgrace her mother!!! I say to all the media doing so... Sham on you!!!
      Lets focuse on the real issues on how to better our country and how she would be a prim Candidate to do so!

        Reply#13 - Tue Sep 2, 2008 3:53 PM EDT
        Pavilion

        This article is NOT about the daughter. It is about the right of privacy that should be extended to EVERY American. EVERY American should be granted the right of privacy to deal with such issues as premature pregnancy, rape, birth defects, etc... and the choices that come with those situations. EVERY single American has the same right to privacy in these matters as Palin.

        The stances on abortion of Palin, McCain, Bush, etc... would deny us our right to privacy in making decisions about these issues. That is what this article is about.

        • 4 votes
        #13.1 - Tue Sep 2, 2008 4:03 PM EDT
        Reply
        Pam-338163Deleted
        tgstk2

        Framing the abortion issue as a privacy one makes sense up to a point. Certainly if the mother was the only factor, that would be the case. But I doubt that many pro-life/anti-choice people will see it that way because of the state's interest in the other person involved, i.e., the unborn baby.

        Both sides on this issue have fundamental disagreements about the definitions of "person" and "life" and there's just not alot of compromise or common ground to be found. I don't think there will ever be a clear-cut right answer for the ethical question of whether it's right or wrong to have an abortion, so we probably shouldn't create legislation either way about it. In my mind, it's probably best to just delegate the decision down the chain of authority until in the end it rests with the mother.

        • 2 votes
        Reply#15 - Tue Sep 2, 2008 4:26 PM EDT
        Jared KardosDeleted
        bondibox

        I hope that Mrs. Palin's deserved right to privacy doesn't give her a pass on the sex education question. Can it even be asked without the McCainiacs crying foul? Because she not longer has a good answer. Does she

        1] Keep to her fundamentalist base and go with abstinence-only (and look the complete fool?)
        2] Break with the fundies and say there ought to be a variety of contraceptive choices available to both genders?
        3] Evade the question, and allow us to draw our own conclusions?

        • 5 votes
        Reply#17 - Tue Sep 2, 2008 7:14 PM EDT
        maggot-to-fly

        Palins support of abstinence-only policy

        is not only a National issue but a Foreign one as well PEPFAR

        and her cutting of state funding for Poor pregnant teens (line item veto) just reported in the Post

        sorry no privacy allowed on this one

        and I hope Joe Biden can bring this up in the coming debates for VP

        • 2 votes
        Reply#18 - Tue Sep 2, 2008 8:34 PM EDT
        Pavilion

        Palins support of abstinence-only policy

        is not only a National issue but a Foreign one as well PEPFAR

        and her cutting of state funding for Poor pregnant teens (line item veto) just reported in the Post

        Maggot - I agree with all your points. But, that doesn't mean we must invade a 17 year-old's privacy in order to discuss the above issues. We don't have to sink to that depth. We can make our point without invading a young woman's privacy.

        • 6 votes
        #18.1 - Tue Sep 2, 2008 8:59 PM EDT
        Reply
        Anon-472590Deleted
        libra7288

        Sorry Sarah! You don't have the right to ask everyone to respect your daughter's privacy, when you completely disregarded her feelings in the first place by accepting the nomination for VP.

        Your daughter has my respect, and I will not comment on her situation. I wish her and her new family well.

        You on the other hand, Ms. Palin are in no position to tell anyone what they should or should not do. I do not know how can you sleep at night knowing what you are putting your family through. Do you have any concern for the well being of your children? I find it hard to believe that you possibly could. A mother's first and foremost job is her family. Your career ambitions have clearly clouded your judgment. You obviously have not been giving your family the attention they deserve. If you had paid more attention, you would have known what your children were up to.

        You have no business running for VP at a time when your family needs your attention the most.

        Shame on you, Sarah, shame on you!

        • 3 votes
        Reply#20 - Tue Sep 2, 2008 11:13 PM EDT
        dandemacy

        I find your condemnation of Palin's decision to run for public office rather disturbing. I doubt you have objected to many of the other women who have run for public office. And what about women who work outside the home? Should they quit their jobs just because their family needs them? What if this is the way that Palin believes that she can best take care of her family?

        What right do you have to say that she isn't, or at least isn't capable of, taking care of her family at the same time as trying to better her country? Are you aware that her husband is, by their mutual decision, a stay-at-home dad? Is this not acceptable in your narrow point of view?

        What about men with special needs children, or children with other issues, who have run for public office? Have you, or anyone else for that matter, condemned them for not focusing on their families?

        Don't get me wrong, I would love it if our society was again in a position where women didn't have to work outside the home to support their families. If my salary was sufficient to support my family without my wife adding to it with her salary, I would be in favor of her staying at home, and she would be as well.

        I think that most families would benefit from either parent being able to stay at home, but the fact remains that this is not possible for most families at this stage of our country's development.

        shame on you, libra7288, shame on you!

        • 3 votes
        #20.1 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:45 PM EDT
        Reply
        dandemacy

        I saw this yesterday, but didn't have time to comment as I know that this will be lengthy, I hope that this is going to be seen as I have several questions and comments regarding this issue. I am not going to post my complete position as it can be found here.

        No one - not even our most knowledgeable scientists, can tell at what exact moment life begins (or ends).

        I have heard differently on this. It is commonly held by science that the egg and the sperm are both alive, and no one says that when they come together there is death, so it would logically hold that the conceptus is also alive. This is the belief of not only most of the Christian faith, but also by many other faiths, and Hippocrates, the father of medicine, who died almost 400 years before the birth of Christ, and over 450 years before the foundation of the Christian church.

        I will give no deadly medicine to any one if asked, nor suggest any such counsel; and in like manner I will not give to a woman a pessary to produce abortion. With purity and with holiness I will pass my life and practice my Art.

        And he lived in a time that abortion was commonplace and accepted.

        poor rural women who cannot afford to drive to more populated areas (with more choices in pharmacies) are really impacted if they cannot find birth control locally.

        Most (if not all) insurance companies will pay for medications to be mailed to the patient. Assuming that the patient doesn't have insurance, but is going to the pharmacy for medications anyway, they are obviously able (or at least willing) to pay for the medications out of pocket. I know that there are on-line pharmacies that will and do take cash patients, so this shouldn't be a factor in a reasonable pro-life/anti-abortion view.

        I am pro-choice. That does not mean I am pro-abortion. Pro-choice means I don't feel I have the right to push my personal beliefs about the beginning of life upon another person, or family.

        Just out of curiosity, what are your positions on murder, rape, burglary, DWI, and domestic violence? Assuming you are against any of these things, what right do you have to push your personal beliefs about them upon another person or family? All of the ones I mentioned are illegal with no public debate. If abortion for convenienceis wrong, why shouldn't it be illegal as well?

        I keep hearing about abortion being a right to privacy, but I don't understand how abortion rights overlap with privacy rights, even if the right to privacy was specifically spelled out. If it is about privacy, then why can't I beat my wife in the privacy of my own home, without worrying about being arrested? Why can't I kill my already born children in the privacy of my own home? Why can't I invite young children in to my own home for some private, consensual sex? Why does privacy support abortion when it doesn't support any of the other crimes that can be committed in private?

        (Please do not take any of the above as me wanting to commit any of the actions mentioned, or even supporting the legalization of them.)

        I have read the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence completely a couple of times, and portions of it several times. I have never seen anything about a right to privacy being guaranteed. However, I have seen:

        We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

        To break it down, this entire sentence was considered to be absolute, undeniable truth. It states that all men (which includes women) are created (not born) equal, but it is understood that after creation, the equality changes. But at the time of creation, which, I submit by my previous arguments, is conception, have unalienable rights, including, but not limited to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

        Liberty is not in question in this discussion and won't be mentioned further. The pursuit of happiness does not guarantee happiness, just that you have the right to find what may, or may not, make you happy. In this context, I see this meaning that if you think sex is going to make you happy, then go for it, but your right to pursue happiness should not infringe on someone else's rights.

        The right to life. This is what the entire discussion is all about. The Declaration of Independence, one of the most important documents that this country is founded on states, in no uncertain terms, that everyone has the right to life from the moment of creation. Why does this not apply to the unborn? Why should a woman's right to pursue happiness be more important to her unborn child's right to life? I feel that the order that the 3 were mentioned was deliberate, indicating the order that people's rights should be honored. Life being most important. I also understand that there are other rights that are not mentioned in the DoI, but they are spelled out in great detail in the Constitution.

        I apologize for the length of this post, but I am very passionate about this topic, and want to learn more about both sides of it. I have always made an attempt to keep religion out of my arguments, as this only instantly turns most pro-abortion people off from hearing anything else you have to say, and I feel that I can fully support my views with logic and science, without needing to interject my personal faith.

        If you have read this far, I thank you for your valuable time. I welcome any and all rational comments here, or on the article I have written on the subject.

        • 2 votes
        Reply#21 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 12:15 PM EDT
        libra7288

        Thank you for your comments Dandemacy. I appreciate your point of view.

        Having said that, you seemed to have missed my point. I never said she shouldn't hold a full time job, nor did I say that working mothers are bad people. I've always been a full-time working mother. My paycheck equally contributes to helping my family have a nice life. I am no different than any other working mother in the world. Sarah is not special because she holds a position in public office. She's no better than any other working mother. I just believe she made a bad choice on this issue.

        My point was that she asked for everyone to respect her daughter's privacy, yet she is the one who brought the attention to her daughter's condition in the first place. In a world with 24/7 media coverage on every little detail of anyone's life, it seems ridiculous to expect their privacy would be respected.

        I'm sure that 99% of the media and the country would agree that her daughter should be off limits. I am one of those that agree she should be left alone. However, Sarah's is fair game. She is the one who made the decision to join the campaign, therefore she should be questioned about her choices, her beliefs and how they work in real world, her judgment, her character and her ability to lead and handle tough interrogation.

        All parents, mothers and fathers, must make hard choices. Sarah had an opportunity to decline the invitation to join the ticket. She chose career over family on this particular issue, in MY opinion, I find her choice disagreeable. I stand by my belief that her baby and her daughter need her more than the rest of the country does right now.

        As far as her husband is concerned, I have not heard that he is a stay at home dad. If he is, great for all of them! That's wonderful! Unfortunately, someone needs to tell John McCain, since just last night he reintroduced "Todd" as a union member working for an oil company. So . . . let's just remember his career choices aren't at issue, Sarah's choices are an issue to me.

        I hope this clears up any misconception you may have had about my initial posting. Cheers!

        • 3 votes
        Reply#22 - Fri Sep 5, 2008 2:00 PM EDT
        Donna-503773

        I see the issue as one of personal freedom.

        Thomas Jefferson said, "Without choice...there is no freedom."

        My grandfather taught me that other people's rights ended where my nose begins. I've always interpreted that to mean that none has the right to harm me or try to force me to live by their beliefs.

        I am pro-choice and unlike Pavilion, I have been in the position where I had to decide whether or not to have an abortion. I was a young widow who got pregnant by a man of a different race in 1975. I agonized for weeks about what to do. Most of my friends of both races told me to get an abortion because my life would be very difficult if I had and kept the baby.

        I knew that I needed to be able to look myself in the eye every morning for the rest of my life and that it was essential that I like the person I saw in the mirror. As a result, I choose to have the baby because I didn't think that being of mixed race was grounds for execution. I was not willing to kill my child to make my life easier. I was also not willing to give the baby up for adoption.

        My son is 31 years old and he is a good and decent man that I am proud of.

        Was my life difficult? Absolutely and so were my children's lives. While most of the prejudice and intolerance was directed at me, they got lot of it too because his sibling are not of mixed race.

        But let make one thing very clear...Because I had a choice...I have never blamed or resented my son for any the problems because I knew what I was getting into by having and KEEPING him. If I had been forced to have or keep him...I would have resented him and his life would have been a living hell.

        Decisions of this nature are personal and should be made by the people who have to live with the results of those decisions...not other people...and definitely not the government.

        • 4 votes
        Reply#23 - Sun Sep 7, 2008 2:01 PM EDT
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